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Author Topic: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!  (Read 7078 times)

Pure Bliss

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ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« on: November 30, 2011, 11:24:06 am »
This is a message for all ADD/ADHD people who are using Brain EV.
Here is a quote that may interest you....
"In a brain that is functioning normally, theta waves are dominant only when a person is drowsy or on the edge of sleep, the dreamy place called the hypnogogic state. [Sometimes] the brain's regulatory apparatus is thrown out of whack. Theta waves spread across the brain, and beta waves, the higher frequencies, which construct our waking consciousness and sour senses and motor skills, are subsumed by the lower [= theta] frequency. Comas [....] are at the severe end of "too much theta', while head injury falls somewhere in the middle, and attention deficit disorder is at the least severe end of the spectrum."

Now here is the crunch. If you read the posts written by ADD/ADHD people, they claim that their ADD/ADHD plays absolute havoc with their lives. Also the lives of loved ones get pretty messed up. I have read posts on this forum by ADD/ADHD individuals who claim they are desperate to remedy their problem. Yet I have asked each and every ADD/ADHD person I have noticed on this forum to provide regular feedback - daily feedback would be best. Do they do this? Have a look at the forum......

I am not a brainwave specialist (but I am reading everything I can find about the subject), and I know that Brain Ev holds the key to allieviating, if not solving all sorts of problems from ADD/ADHD, insomnia (my problem), depression, anxiety etc etc. However we cannot make any significant progress in giving ADD/ADHD people concrete advice on how best to use the program, if you guys don't provide regular feedback. We need to know what happens to an ADD/ADHD brain at levels 1 and 2 where lots of alpha is coming in - do you wake up? how do you feel? what is going on in that cranium of yours? Likewise when you hit the higher levels of 4, 5 and 6 with lots of theta - ever deepening theta and delta, what on earth happens to a brain "stuck" in theta in a normal waking state. Does ADD/ADHD get worse, does it improve?

I know that I can really relate to the quotation I put in above. I do not suffer from ADD/ADHD, for me it is/was insomnia, circular thoughts ('circular' sounds like a pretty "stuck" brainwave frequency to me), anxiety that ruined my waking day. I identify with the above text because, for me, it is as if Brain Ev hit a reset button in my head. One session at level 1 and I was calm, relaxed, unflappable and a super sleeper. So Brain Ev works if you are observant enough to know what is going on and when. The Brain Ev reset "threw my brainwave profile back into whack" to adapt the quote above.

So, I throw down the gauntlet.
I would love to work with ADD/ADHD people here on the forum (as a user, not as a therapist). I would create a simple form that you fill in every day. We could then collect data to create an ever larger database. At a minimum we could then determine which levels help most with ADD/ADHD.

You commitment would be to have a genuine commitment to self-monitor, and share these results, AND to do Brain Ev to the letter. That means six days on, one day off for four weeks, then change up a level. No messers, no fakers - you will just muddy the data. You all claim that you don't have self-discipline to stick to programs or take notes. I would think that living with ADD/ADHD would make this small contribution (30 mins Brain Ev and filling in a form) an effort that may be worthwhile. Or not. At least you would know Brain Ev does/doesn't help ADD/ADHD.

Of course this isn't my forum.
We will have to wait and see what Karl, Tiffany and the big bosses say.
If they agree, I'm in.
If you suffer from ADD/ADHD, then write a post below. For this to be effective, we need several people. The more the better.

Here is to resetting your brain for the better today and every day, if necessary!
In anticipation of some response, Pure Bliss


Karl

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 12:30:18 pm »
Hello Pure Bliss!

Yes, I would certainly back this initiative. It would be great to get more feedback on how users are utilizing BrainEv to assist with their ADD and ADHD.

Evidence that brainwave entrainment assists with these conditions has been around for some time, and learning specifically how BrainEv users are helping to overcome it would be fantastic!

Great thoughts, Pure Bliss -- Kindest,

Karl :)

Dreamer

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:48:34 pm »
Pure Bliss, I know and love you both on and off the forum, but....
Providing regular feedback is more difficult than you can imagine for a person dealing with ADD/ADHD. I know I have attempted various forms of journaling most of my life, sometimes as required portions of treatment programs. I can usually manage it for several days to several weeks, but beyond that it becomes impossible. I don't know why, but it never happens, no matter how much I want it to.
As I have always used routines to help keep me on track. Going back to a very well articulated post by JeDale about working storage memory, routines are a way I can attempt to put things into long term memory so I don't lose bits and pieces along the way. Now why I haven't been able to put journaling into that kind of a routine, I can't say. I will pick up my notebook at the proper time, but can't think of anything to write in it. The same thing happens here in a way. I can come to the forum but as far as posting anything my mind will often go blank.
Currently I have a many other causes of interference. My best friend died suddenly last week and her funeral is this Saturday. The holidays are here and I am trying like mad to figure out how to see my sons, whether I can afford the gifts I would like to give and if not, what else is there to give. My on-again/off-again SO is on again, but he is going through a bought of depression, and I am trying to help him. Plus my work schedule has gone from being quite regular to being totally chaotic. Starting and ending at different times on different days with no rhyme or reason to be found. All of these things combined are making my life quite challenging and I thank Brain Ev for the fact I am not constantly stressing out or forgetting which days I work or what time to go in on the days I do work.
Honestly, if you could create a form to fill in I know it would help me quite a bit in providing regular feedback, though once Christmas is over I think I will have an easier time getting my own posts up on a regular basis. As far as whether Brain Ev is helping with my ADHD, I have been using the self-quizzes on Psych Central which have been showing a steady improvement. I look forward to seeing what you produce as far as a form to fill out.
Blessings
Dreamer
PS, I really think you should be compensated for all you do on the forum. Just my opinion.
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

Pure Bliss

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 02:24:00 pm »
@Karl - You sure are someone special. Fact. This forum is the most open, transparent, and useful one I have ever come across. Another Fact. We can learn together. Brain Ev works. However people are very different, so it is a terrific opportunity for us users to find ways of optimising Brain Ev usage to what makes us function at the highest level possible for each of us. Thank you, Karl.

@Dreamer - Point taken about the journaling. ADD/ADHD and journaling don't mix - or so you claim. However both you and JeDale both write highly articulate, lengthly posts..... go figure! Yes, to come to the point. I would have to experiment and tweak. What research questions we want answered will define the format. (Yum, yum, I just adore research!). I will try to make a format that stays identical across each level, testing mood, sleep patterns, attention patterns, time of day/night of session, possibly marked on a scale from 1 - 5. Leaving a space for individual comments such as wins and losses which is not mandatory. However I am pretty sure this should be daily feedback to counteract normal fluctuations in mood/state of mind.

Good too, on a start of level basis, would be a simple (well accredited - so I would have to get their permission) depression self-test, ditto anxiety, anger, creativity and other factors the group decided were relevant to their ADD/ADHD profile.

Good on ya, Dreamer. I can see the progress since Brain Ev. Life sure throws mighty challenges our way, you have a lot on your plate. A death, partner ups and downs, his depression wow! Busy days ahead. May your journey be focused, well-grounded and feel magical.

Thanks for the feedback! Blissfully yours! ;)

JeDale

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 12:36:09 am »
Hi there,

Up front, I would like to point out that A.D.D and A.D.H.D are DIFFERENT conditions, but for the sake of brevity I will short hand both of them as simply ADD/ADHD.

I really appreciate Pure Bliss's enthusiasm and dedication about building this database and I certainly want to contribute to the effort to see what data comes out and where the research goes.

Having said this, I do feel that all the "go figure" comments about regular journaling and feedback are unfairly critical, misinformed and out of line. There also seems to be a very subtle insinuation that the pain and suffering that we ADD/ADHD people experience in our lives (not to mention the pain and suffering in the lives of the people that we share our lives with) is somehow exaggerated or untrue, or that we are uncommitted to finding solutions to our own plight, simply because we are not posting regular journal entries or feedback in this forum. 

I think Bliss meant well with her post and did not intend to suggest anything derogatory, but allow me to set the record straight:  The pain and suffering is REAL, and this is not simply a matter of "get your lazy ADD/ADHD butt into gear and get journaling!".

Don't assume that simply because an ADD/ADHD person can write "highly articulate, lengthy posts" (like this one) that this now automatically means that journaling is now as easy to do as it would be for a "normal" person. 

Remember, you only see the end result, which is the finished post itself. You don't see what was happening behind the scenes while it was being written.

It has taken me OVER THREE AND A HALF HOURS to write what you have read up to this very sentence, and my opening post took MUCH LONGER than that - almost the WHOLE DAY. I know about this because I made a point of timing myself.  Emails at work that should take me a few minutes to knock up end up taking half an hour or more to complete, and I am not talking about "multitasking" here either - I am talking about doing nothing else but the task at hand.       

Back at school, I once got a "F" symbol for a Science test which was written in a 45 minute period. My parents and teachers reckoned that I was butt lazy and making excuses for myself. As an experiment - I went home that very afternoon and wrote the same test again - IN MY OWN TIME - without touching a book or looking up any answers. It took me around 2-3 hours to REWRITE THE SAME TEST, and when the teacher marked that test just to humour me, I scored a "B+". Ladies and gents, I am not making this up and I am not exaggerating.   

Journaling uses many of the same cognitive processing and data retrieval mechanisms that writing a test does. With the exception of rudimentary information that is directly available or recorded (such as the start and end time in a time-pressured exam or test) information in the form of memories occur as part of sequences of events or bits and pieces of data that are pegged, linked or associated with one another along a "time track".

The reason that I personally write articulate, lengthy posts is because my mind derails quite often and I am trying to create a hard copy alternative for working memory that I don't have. In other words, I am creating a "map" of sorts - so that when my mind gives me a blue screen or an IQ failure - I can use the hard copy ???map??? to get back on track. Much of the data that I am working with (for example facts, numbers, images, symbols, memories of events, thoughts, experiences, energy levels, somatic imprints, etc.) return to me distorted, out of time sequence and with polarized emotions that are disproportionate to the data that they are attached to.

Even within the 30 minute BrainEV session, my mind is a quagmire of vast amounts of mental static consisting of thoughts, emotions, symbols, images and imprints from multiple time tracks that I often cannot make sense of, and all of this is tangled and rolled up into opaque, untidy clumps or balls of mental fuzz surrounded by large sections of memory "black outs" or blank spaces. This phenomenon is particularly observable in cases of past trauma where the mind deliberately suppresses memories in order to suppress the painful emotions that come with them.

Day-to-day life for an ADD/ADHD person is emotionally VERY traumatic, so memory suppression happening right there as well, but this is a phenomenon that is mutually exclusive from ADD/ADHD so it is very easy to misread or misdiagnose what is happening. 

I do believe that what I experience is not unique only to me. When any person with ADD/ADHD tries to record their experiences in a journal, they are actually trying to decrypt garbled data being returned from their minds into a form that is accurate and coherent for THEM to understand so that they can find a way of relaying it to YOU in a way that YOU will understand. Attached to all of that disjointed content will be emotions that are powerful and amplified and so it becomes difficult for the ADD/ADHD person to get to the point that they are recalling accurate information within the correct context. Thus, what they record in their journals is usually an inaccurate and misleading account of what *actually* took place, and this has got absolutely nothing to do with them.

Yet ??? YET ???.this does NOT now suddenly mean that A.D.D/A.D.H.D is ???all in the mind??? and that it is not real. What I am saying here is that the A.D.D. person DOES have impaired cognitive faculties but they often DO NOT have the ability to quantify, express or ???self-diagnose??? in clear words the exact nature of what they feel or experience.

You have no idea how difficult it has been for me to get to the point where I can actually express myself the way that I do in my posts. I have written thousands of pages of garbled journal ramblings in the past, and together with the many articles and books I have read, I have eventually come up with a way to accurately express what happens in my own mind - and what could be happening in the minds of many ADD/ADHD people out there. Even so, many ADD/ADHD-ers themselves will take what they write at the spur of the moment in their journals with a pinch of salt because of the volatile frame of mind that they were in at the time of writing it. Remember also that they are in constant emotional flux, and this within itself dramatically alters the tone and hue of the memories that they have created and are currently creating.

There is something much deeper that happens with these journal entries. I don't know how familiar you are with the principles of NLP and with the Law of Attraction, but if you focus on ANY memories or thoughts for long enough (like in the case of a "stuck record" that repeatedly rears its head) - ESPECIALLY IF THOSE MEMORIES AND THOUGHTS HAVE POWERFUL EMOTIONS ATTACHED TO THEM - you will literally begin to attract other emotions, thoughts and eventually physical events and people that are of likeness. In other words, what you postulate or ramble on about in your journal entries might have started out as warped or out of context - but it eventually becomes "true" because you are focusing on it so much. Later on, you will form warped memories on top of other warped memories and the situation just escalates out of control.  The highly emotive mind of an ADD/ADHD person is highly auto-suggestible and impressionable because it has no solid ground from which to draw perspective. You may even read other people's journal entries and unwittingly begin to create them in your own mind as your own reality. 

Journal entries are only useful if they are based on memories that are accurate and clear to begin with, and are recalled in a way that preserves the accuracy, context and clarity. Does this happen in an ADD/ADHD mind? Indeed, CAN it happen? With respects, but I think that the answer is a resounding NO.

You will notice that my own level I "journal" entries in this forum were VERY succinct and to the point. That is because I was focusing on ONLY recording change as it occurs with a very small group of VERY specific criteria. I was trying to avoid the many pitfalls that I have mentioned above.
To conclude, I think that a FORM which consists of specific questions and criteria which are clear, unambiguous and have been screened and approved by trained professionals will be FAR more effective than any journal entry can ever be. These questions must be asked according to strict protocols and must not be asked in a way that "leads" the impressionable ADD/ADHD mind into forming ulterior conclusions.

Much of the so-called "evidence" out there that I am personally aware of about ADD and Brain Entrainment is largely subjective and anecdotal. I think by using a form together with proper academic research methodologies will achieve far better responses - and far more meaningful results - than by simply trying to make all of us ADD/ADHD people feel guilty about not completing daily journals.

P.S. the time taken to write this post was 6 HOURS and 28 MINUTES.

Jason   
"Gentle heart, deep mind, warrior spirit" - Jason E. Dale

Dreamer

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 09:19:23 am »
Jason,

Bravo for an excellent post!!! Personally I think it was well worth the time you spent to write it.

I also think it is a good thing that they (whoever 'they' are) are finally realizing that ADD and ADHD are two different conditions rather than, as most current books say, ADD 'is' ADHD without the hyperactivity. I know that with the hyperactivity which is part of ADHD I cannot sit through a television program without getting up to do things several times or having some kind of hand activity; knitting, sewing, something; to keep my need to move fulfilled. It is difficult to stand and talk to someone when I need to stay in motion all the time.

It is also quite true for me that I cannot remember things in sequence. Memories of taking my children to the fair become a jumble of jig-saw puzzle pieces with some of the pieces missing. I think I am remembering events in the correct order until I realize that something I believed happened later led directly into something that I believe happened earlier so I know my whole internal timeline is wrong. It is hard on people around me when I have to ask them the order in which events happened. Their response is often - you were there, you should know. But I don't know.

Yet, for me the bigger problem is /was my temper, which Brain Ev has done a lot to help. For a normal person there is a progression from calm to irritation to anger to blowing up. For an ADHD person there is calm, calm, calm, blow up, with none of the middle steps involved. The idea of becoming irritated and realizing I am irritated and solving the problem then is a great plus. Much better than being calm until I lose control.

Honestly, I no longer remember where I was going with this post and it would take more time than I have at the moment to try to figure it out and get back to it, so I will end here. Again, JeDale, thank you for an amazing post.

Blessings
Dreamer
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

apple25

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 03:02:23 am »
Jason and Dreamer:    Thank you SO much for taking the time and making the effort to write your long posts.     I read and thoroughly enjoyed reading them as I could relate to it so well.    I have not been tested for ADD/ADHD, but the last few years, I was told by friends and family that I exhibited the symptoms.    Being a scanner certainly doesn't help.    Some days it's just not an easy thing to live with.     It stresses me at times.     I just wanted to chime in and tell you both how much it meant to me that you expressed your feelings.    I am still new to BrainEv and will make my effort at sporadic journaling  and come back to 'report' my experience with this.

wellofcreation

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2013, 06:34:58 am »
Hi. ADD/ADHD is actually a wrong name. It is not about attention. This "illness" was given this name becasue of the obvious behavioral symptom which is focus- attention or inattention and kids can be very disruptive or zoned out. It is actually about regulation. That's why so many names have come up because the symptoms vary. Aspergers Autism albinism etc.

Before I continue, I may jump from one topic to another so please bear with me.

 After finding out that I had ADD/ADHD I started reading books about this subject. Before that I was already interested in the Brain. I started to read The Brain that Changes Itself and other books. I always loved science. I did BS Biology at Uni.

There is so much I want to say but there is so much that it will have to be a book if I start it. I had such an aha moment when I was diagnosed. It all made sense. The people around me, my husband, my children are now more sympathetic. With the onset of menopause, the symptoms became worse and I attributed it to that- menopause.

I get so upset these days because most people I know think that it is just an excuse and that you can get out of this situation gung ho style and if you have the desire or determination and discipline. Nowadays, I just keep quiet.

If you have a stroke and say you lose the capacity to walk, you know what part of your brain has been hit. With ADD/ADHD it is totally different. Again I refer you back to regulation. If this is about regulation then where to start? Anger- scale 1-10. attention/focus 1-10, memory 1-10, eyesight 1-10, hearing 1-10, hormones God know which hormones 1-10 just let's say growth hormone? one ADHD 's growth was affected and is very short, even shorter than their short siblings or parents. One aspergers person is very tall and the parents are not really that tall, even the "normal" brother is not tall or any of their relatives. Twin sisters one is obese and the other "normal". ONe very very good in maths but poor in English, the other very good in English and hits a wall in Maths. 10-Serial killer who can read people and a 1 a victim who  has no clue and God knows the in between ones. There was a female warden who examined her prisoners and found that 70% of them had adhd. When treated with Neurofeedback the symptoms of anger, paranoia, tension etc dissipated. reassessed for ADHD and brain showed improvement.

I am doing Neurofeedback at the moment and my memory is improving- from not being able to memorize two numbers of a new phone number to 6 numbers at a time, and my anger has gone down. I dont speed as much when driving since I lost my license. I am able to control it. I still can't finish tasks. I will be gungho about it for at most two weeks then here is where I cant figure it out- My mind says I should do it. Then there is some kind of a fight that goes on in my head and before I know it, I have forgotten it. Then I get all guilty and torn etc etc etc. So executive function is not there yet, I still go into oppositional mode with losing weight.

I found I had breast cancer at 30 years of age. Hmmm, too young to have it and maybe that was the ADHD- I dont know. I refused to go under the knife and do radiation etc. I did colonics. I only ate raw food and healthy drinks like wheat grass juice. I had pus coming out of my armpit yet I was determined that I was going to get cured.Three years later I did. I have two children who were both breastfed. NOw why am I saying this? Just so you know I am not a "loser". I get done what needs to get done that I am interested in. Now I cannot even get anything done. I am a biologist, a singer/songwriter- I can do Jazz and scat, ballad, opera, rock, soul pop, Demartini Method practitioner, FLorist, food caterer, Reconnective Healer, Theta Healer, Mother. Yep, they call me Jack of all trades Master of none. Yet now I can't even finish short courses.

I am reaching out because I have a daughter who is precious to me who has the same thing but different symptoms. I have always had the belief that there is a solution to everything. That was probably my saving grace growing up not knowing that I had this.

If anyone can give me any information regarding using BrainEv, it would be much appreciated. Thanks for reading.


Dreamer

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 12:22:50 pm »
WoC,

I notice you mention ADHD and Asperger as being similar. That opens up a whole new can of worms. I can sympathise with what you are saying and will comment more when I have time.

Dreamer
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

wellofcreation

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2013, 10:47:12 pm »
Hi. I didnt say they are similar.

Dreamer

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 07:55:43 pm »
WoC,

I see that you did not say they were similar. Comes from reading in a hurry.

On the other hand, There have been many with AS who were first diagnosed as ADHD because they share a lot of symptoms. Also there are quite a few who have both.

Dreamer
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

scattercat

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Re: ADD & ADHD: this post is for you!
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2014, 06:00:19 am »
Hi, can you send me the form to fill out please for the ADD & ADHD survey - hoping by listening to the Nitrofocus and the sleep salon, not carrying out what I plan to, might change.

 





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